If you’ve ever dreamed of someday writing a book, my friend Jennifer Harshman has a special recipe you might want to try.
I recently got to pick her brain on books, business, and productivity. You can listen in on our conversation and get some insight and inspiration to tackle your goals for 2023.
Also, if you really are interested in learning how you can write your first book, check out Jennifer’s new book, Your Book Bakery, or join one of her 12-week “Book Bakery” bootcamps that she runs periodically throughout the year.
Transcript
Dave
Someone once said, show me your friends, and I’ll show you your future. And I want my future to look pretty productive. So I’m excited to show you one of my friends, who I’m not sure if I’ve actually shared this with her before, and if not, shame on me. But I find her truly inspiring, if not a little intimidating, by just how much stuff she seems to be able to get done in a given day. Jennifer Harshman is a writer, an editor, a publisher, and a coach. She has edited over 200 books to date, including one that’s strategically placed over both of our shoulders. 48 days to the work in life you love by Dan Miller. And we could have a whole conversation about that. She’s written a number of her own, and most recently, she’s released your book, bakery, which is the same name of her group coaching program, where she walks people through writing their first manuscript. Jennifer, welcome, and thank you for taking the time to be on the show.
Jennifer
David, thank you so much for having me.
Dave
Jennifer and I know each other through Platform Launchers (sign up for an extended free trial here), which I’ve mentioned here before. I just keep connecting with really cool people there, and I love having conversations. I love showing these people off to you guys.
Now, writing is Jennifer’s world, and we’re going to talk about writing. But we’re at the top of the new year, so I thought it would be apt to also talk a little bit about habits and productivity and some other stuff to help folks maintain momentum through 2023. Because Jenn in particular has always stood out as a doer. Jennifer, you produce a staggering amount of content for yourself for other people. How many words on average, would you say you write on a given day?
Jennifer
Oh, my goodness. If I look at client work plus all of my own, I would say a few thousand words a day. As far as writing and then editing, my standard is 10,000 words a day.
Dave
As an editor, you need a read too. You’re a voracious reader, I understand.
Jennifer
Yes. So I have read more than 20,000 books so far in my life.
Dave
Wait….. You’re a parent and you home school, correct? Jennifer, what do you put in your tea? How do you keep up with this? I have three young boys. To be able to read, like, two pages a day. I’ll mark that as, okay, we’re on track. I can feel good about that.
Jennifer
Your boys are young, and they’re really energetic, so they are going to be taking a lot of your time and attention at this stage in their lives and in your life. So please don’t feel like you have to we do not have to compare or don’t feel like you don’t stack up or anything. You’re amazing.
Dave
Not comparing! I just want to acknowledge that you have done what you’ve done and you’re running a business. Your job isn’t to read books just because you love reading books. You have turned this into a business that supports your family. So you can teach your kids, raise them at home, be close with your family, have the life that you love, and you manage it.
What do you keep in front of you? Where does that drive come from?
Jennifer
There are things that just need to be done and things that bring me alive. I’ve worked over the years to shape my life, so that almost everything that is in it is something that I want to be in it. So there’s a natural motivation, there’s a natural joy in the things that I get to do.
Dave
I like what you said about being intentional to have in your life the things that you want in your life, but still you are choosing to fill your life with still a lot of work and a lot of production. Do you have systems or tools that help you generate all of this output?
Jennifer
Yes. I use a calendar and have things blocked off for every hour of the day. I know what is there, even if it’s rest. And I do make time for rest, recreation, recuperation. I also use a project management tool called Asana, and I have an online business manager. Amanda is my right arm. I would not be able to do half of the things that I do without Amanda and my other team members. So I thank God for them every day. And we have slack, so there’s lots of communication and she just keeps things on track. If there’s any kind of change, she can let me know what’s coming up. So I have an exterior brain, so to speak.
Dave
Can you talk about work sprints? This is something that I have seen you inviting people to join on social media. How does that work?
Jennifer
I was introduced to this concept a long, long time ago, back when things were like AOL Instant Messenger. A couple of friends of mine and I would get on there and set a timer at the top of the hour. We would say whatever it was we were going to do during that time, we would go and do the thing and then come back five or ten minutes before the next hour and account for what we had done with that time.
It was really helpful because it was a finite amount of time, so a defined chunk. And we knew that there were people on the other side that would be waiting to hear how we did. And that pressure, and it’s a good pressure. It’s nothing that’s negative, but it’s just a positive peer pressure kind of thing. It would help us to stay focused. And when you’re focused, you can get a lot more done.
Dave
How much time do you normally set for these?
Jennifer
Normally we’ll take the first five minutes to tell each other what we’re doing, what we plan to accomplish during the hour. And then we come back about five minutes till so about 45 or 50 minutes of focused work.
Dave
That’s cool. So you log on, kind of check in and then are you on the whole time and mute cameras off or do you log off and log back on later for it’s?
Jennifer
Up to the person? I stay on the whole time. I just turn my camera off and mute my mic. And that way I am there in case anybody has some sort of question or they’ll put something into the chat if they need help. But it’s pretty quiet for that 45 or 50 minutes.
Dave
That’s a really cool idea. You get the accountability of working with other people, but you’re still able to be by yourself and enjoy the quiet. It’s like ghost accountability! That’s a really cool concept.
Jennifer
And when you come back at the end and you’re like, hey, I give myself a nine out of ten because I did all this stuff, you get to celebrate each other’s wins in real time. And that’s just so motivating.
Dave
I like that. I like that a lot. Any other tips to kind of just help get stuff done and stay focused on goals?
Jennifer
I would tell people, break things down. I like to use the phrase bite size. That goes with the whole baker thing. Break things down into bite sized chunks. Because when you do that, that overwhelming feeling, it just goes away when you just remind yourself, I’m only doing this right now. All the rest of that will still be there when I’m ready to get to it.
Dave
I realize we each have different strong suits. I started this interview off like I was staring at the sun, “I can’t believe how much work you get done!!!” And consequently, I revealed myself as the unmotivated and lazy person that I truly am 🙂
No, I do work, but it’s different types of work. There are things that come naturally to me that may not come naturally to you. I can generate a lot of output, but in the form of maybe web design or video editing or some other marketing work for someone else. It might be artisan bread or home inspections or veterinary care. For you, your form is writing usually, but I’ve heard you say on several occasions that “almost anyone can write a book.” Is that true? Because part of me… I believe you, I trust you… but part of me feels like, isn’t it better to just leave that for the people that are the more natural writers?
Jennifer
So my thought on that is with any given thing, if you know how it is done and if you bring the right attitude and resources to the task, then you can do the thing. It might take some practice. You might not jump right out of the gate and be perfect at it. We don’t expect anyone to do that. But if you know how something is done and you can mimic how someone has done it, you can follow the path that someone else has walked, then you can do it. If you can follow a recipe to bake a cake, then you can write a book.
Dave
This makes so much more sense now. Why you are wearing a chef hat and apron 🙂
Jennifer
And I use a whisk as a microphone.
Dave
If you are not the natural writer – you are the home inspector or the artisan baker or the veterinarian – What is the value of writing a book?
Jennifer
Oh goodness, I love that question! A book can do so much. It can do so many different things. A lot of people who are business owners, like the ones that you mentioned, they can use that to help them attract the right type of clients and customers and repel the ones that are just not good fits. So that effort that they put into writing their book can save them so much time for the rest of their lives. And it can help them to make so much more money than they would. Because helping one on one, that’s great. Explaining things one on one on a phone call or a zoom call, that can be fun and it can be effective. But if you could take that same amount of time and explain to 1000 people, imagine what immense goodness that would bring to your business.
Dave
I imagine these people would also probably be the ones really doubting their ability to write a book. So what would you say to maybe push them over the edge into actually pursuing this path?
Jennifer
You don’t have to write to write a book. And that statement sounds really counterintuitive, right? It’s like what?! A lot of times people are better at talking than they are at writing. And if that’s the case, then they can literally record themselves talking. Explaining all of the things that they would explain to their customers, answering all of the frequently asked questions they receive, telling them whatever they think someone should know. And then that can get transcribed and organized and turned into a book.
Dave
I like that approach. And then you can apply that into the proper structures and you help them kind of edit and shape it into something that is more book-like and not just a ramble.
Jennifer
Right! I’ve even helped people with keyword research and find out all of the different things that would need to go into their book and then create the outline from that and hand it to them and say, “just talk about these things.” Hit record and tell me all about what’s on this line right here and then that does a lot towards structuring the book from the very beginning.
Dave
What is a bad reason to want to try to write a book?
Jennifer
Good juicy question!
A bad reason to write a book is thinking that you’re going to become a millionaire directly from your book sales. For most people that doesn’t happen. I think the average now is like fewer than 300 books sell. 300 copies of a book will sell during that book’s lifetime. And a lot of people get really disheartened whenever they hear that and they’re like, oh gosh, well, I was hoping to get rich off of this book I’m writing. That doesn’t mean that they won’t make a lot of good money as a result from it. But it’s not directly from the sales. It’s from giving away their book to people who are influencers, who can bring them business. For people who may become their customers or clients down the road, it just opens so many doors to so many opportunities.
A lot of my clients are coaches and want to be public speakers and having a book in hand has helped them get on so many stages and just really grow their clientele because they have that authority. And if you look at the word authority, it contains the word author. So being an author lends a lot of credibility.
Dave
Yeah, I think a lot of value probably for most people would not come from the revenue a book generates, but like you said, just the legitimacy that it provides you. Here is something; a package of your ideas and helpful information. It positions you as somebody who wants to share knowledge and has knowledge to share. And that’s really powerful.
But is this overplayed at all? I did hear somebody call out people using books like business cards, but there really isn’t that much helpful content in it, or they even ran it through Chat GPT or something like that. Are we at a point in time where books for business promotion purposes are starting to maybe not have as much sizzle as it once did?
Jennifer
Not in my experience. And something to keep in mind if you put genuinely helpful information in your book, if your motivation is good. I think in my experience, everyone that I have worked with it has been a beneficial thing. Now, a lot of people will not read your book. This surprises people too. So you give them a book or they buy it, whatever, it goes on their shelf and most of the time they will not read it. Now, don’t take this as a personal affront. It has nothing to do with you or the quality of the book that you’ve created. It has to do with them being busy and not taking the time, but it still benefits them and you because they have that resource right there at their fingertips. They can go to it whenever they want to. And it is that hefty business card. Like they might not read your book, but they see your book. And whenever someone in their life has whatever it is that you offer, oh yeah, I’ve got this book right here. This guy is the one you need to go to. David is the go to.
Dave
Thank you for talking about value, because that is something that when people are trying to use books or anything as a way just to gain for themselves without having any thought of actually providing real, genuine value for people, it’s something that drives me up the wall and it’s bad business. It’s something that isn’t going to give you sustainable satisfaction or sustainable income as soon as people kind of find you out. As somebody who’s essentially just a scammer, I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that.
Jennifer
I do have a thought on that. A long time ago, when I was wanting to start my business, I was of course reading all sorts of books, right? And a lot of the stuff that I came across felt so icky, like the bro marketing and all the spammy scammy junk. And I was like, no, if this is business, I don’t want to have anything to do with it. If this is how sales has to be done, I don’t want to touch it. And I found a book that was amazing and it’s called The Referral of a Lifetime by Tim Templeton. And I loved that relational type of business. And you find people who need what it is that you have to offer, and you offer it in a very genuine, helpful way. Yes, you’re going to make money, but that’s not your primary motivation. Your primary motivation is serving other people. And it’s not anything that’s dishonest or gross feeling or anything like that. And I thought, that’s how I’m going to build my business. And that’s what I did. Excellence and ease, those are my hallmarks. And then they enjoy that so much they go and tell other people.
Jennifer
So you can absolutely build a business in a way that feels good and right and wholesome. That’s what we want to do.
Dave
You mentioned my name. This has been a slightly self serving line of questioning because writing a book is an idea that I’ve been playing around with for a while. But I’ve always felt like it’s something I won’t be able to touch for at least another ten years. But I felt the same way ten years ago, and here I am and the gap hasn’t closed at all. How can somebody know? How can I know that I’m ready to start writing my first book?
Jennifer
Start before you think you’re ready. You will never feel like it’s a good time. You will never feel like you’ve learned enough or that you’re ready to write a book. It’s really common what you just said people say that to me all the time. I’ve always wanted to write a book. New York Times poll shows that 81% of people want to write a book. But do you know how many people actually do it? Far less than half of 1%. It’s almost 0%. It’s so infinitesimally small. It’s crazy.
And there are all sorts of reasons, like what you just listed. I don’t think I’m good enough, I don’t think I know enough yet. I don’t have the time. And as your life goes on and as you become more and more successful, that is going to become more and more true. You’re going to have so many opportunities that will fill up your schedule if you don’t set the intention that you’re going to write your book this year and not just decide it. That is a very important first step. Decide, I am going to produce a book this year, but also find the resources that will help you do it.
So remember, it is a replicable process. And Tony Robbins says success leaves clues, right? If you want to be successful, find someone who is successful at the thing that you want to do and figure out what they did and then follow in their footsteps. So it doesn’t have to be me. I don’t have to be the one who helps you with it. But there are plenty of sources and resources out there that can help you to write a book.
Just decide you’re going to do it. Find a resource and go!
Dave
What does “going” look like? What’s step one?
Jennifer
Step one is asking yourself some foundational questions. Who is it that you want to help with what? Why? How? And you’re going to take your reader from point A to point B. You have to have a path for them to follow. And if you start with the end in mind so a Stephen Covey principle, right? Begin with the end in mind. You know what you want it to look like, you know what you want it to do. You know all of the results that you want this book to help create for someone and then you just kind of backwards map it. How do you get to point B from point A? And you’ll need systems in place, such as an outline. So doing your research, organizing your material, scheduling time to write, that’s a big one. And it seems really obvious, but I can tell you a lot of people don’t really think to do that. It doesn’t have to be every day. It’s helpful if it is. But you do need to put it into at least your weekly schedule. You have to make time to write.
Dave
Goes back to what we were talking about earlier – just living intentionally. If you want to be a writer, if you want to fill your life with the things that you want it to be filled with. And being an author is one of those things, then put that right in front of you and make time for that. Don’t just kind of get wrapped up in everything else and pushed off somewhere where you don’t want to be. You dropped a ton of helpful advice and motivation.
Before we go, I want to talk a little bit more about your Book Bakery. You have the book, you have the program. You walk people through step by step. You already kind of started us down that path. What more do you have to offer? And where can people learn more about this program?
Jennifer
Harshmanservices.com is my current main website. I will be making a site specifically for Your Book Bakery soon, but at the moment, that’s where people can find it. It’s under services, and it’s your Book Bakery. I have the print book, I have the ebook, and I also have a print workbook that goes with this that people could access if they’d like. People can contact me if they have any questions. And this coming Monday, the 9th, I’m going to be hosting a free session of your Book Bakery, where people can hop on and learn all about how we go through what our calls look like and what they can accomplish, and just kind of explain everything that they might need to know.
Dave
And it’s it’s a 12-week program?
Jennifer
It is, yes.
Dave
So you say that people can write their first manuscript in just twelve weeks. There are 51 weeks left in 2023. So that’s enough time to bang out at least four books, if you follow Jennifer’s method! So definitely check that out. I’ll post a link below to the book, to the program, and be sure to learn more about Jennifer, everything that she has to offer. She’s incredibly generous and incredibly gifted, and it’s just been a delight to having this chance to have a conversation with you.
Jennifer
Well, thank you for having me. Any time I can help you or your people, you just let me know!
Learn more about Jennifer Harshman at harshmanservices.com
